Belarus is a den of oppression

[t***@mindspring.com]

I have a Russian wife and she has a sister living in Belarus. Of
course the economy is very bad there and so we sometimes try to send a
little money via western union to help them.

A couple of weeks ago my wife sent her sister 150 dollars via western
union. Her sister spent the money and now seems to be in trouble with
the government. Of course she paid the taxes that she was suppose to
pay on this money, but that is not enough. Now the government expects
her to open an account at a bank of their choosing. She must then
place the money from us into that account, and she must get permission
from the government any time that she wants to spend any of it. And
the government will only allow her to remove a fraction at a time.
Each time she wants any of the money she will have to go through a
heavy paperwork process - mailing forms to the central government, and
waiting for a beaurocratic cycle to complete.

For christ stake - we are talking about 150 bucks here. Of course the
result of this action is that no one will send money to their relatives
through the banks or the wire services. The government will no longer
get the taxes from those transfers, and they will deny their people the
benefit of those transfers. Futhermore, the country will be denied the
economic infusion of outside capital. People will instead try to use
some illegal method of sending money. This will probably result in the
searching of every letter and package that enters the country.

I can only conclude that the government of Belarus is completely
tyranical and at the same time completely stupid. I can see why Rice
has called the country an outpost of tyranny.

We are suggesting to my wife's sister that she get the hell out of the
country. Things only seem to be getting worse.

Are there actually any people from Belarus in this newsgroup? If there
are, can you comment on this money transfer situation.

[Sum of Stresses]

Yeah... Stupid and ineffective it is. I guess this bureaucratic measure
was intended to establish taxation on the foreign assets arriving in
the country. You should remember that individual taxation is something
new for the post-Soviet societies. People simply don't have a clear
idea of civil responsibility for paying taxes. In reality they seldom
pay taxes from any incomes that they receive in addition to salaries.
Hence stupid bureaucratic measures.
Now, this part of your note: "She must then place the money from us
into that account, and she must get permission from the government any
time that she wants to spend any of it. And the government will only
allow her to remove a fraction at a time. " - is not quite true. As far
as I know, there is no such thing as permissions or limitations on the
amount of spending. Individuals are required to put money on special
account, report the income and pay taxes (9%) - that's all. In your
case, according to Beulorussian law, your wife's sister DOES NOT have
to pay taxes since she is relative of the person who sent money.
But all things considered - yeah, this measure is autocratic and
stupid.
With regard to what Rice said - well, let me disagree with you on this
one. There is nothing more stupid in this world than the current
policies of the US government, and particularly policies advocated by
Mrs. Rice. Our little bureaucratic issueas are nothing compared to the
shame of Bushism. So, I would suggest that your wife's sister stay
where she is, but you and your wife get out of the Bushland as soon as
possible. (Just like I did when I moved from the States back to
Belarus.)
And also, if you regularly send money to Belarus, I suggest that you
open a checking account and send your wife's sister the ATM card.
Withdrawing cash from the card is much cheaper than WU or international
wire transfers.

[t***@mindspring.com]

"Yeah... Stupid and ineffective it is. I guess this bureaucratic
measure
was intended to establish taxation on the foreign assets arriving in
the country."

Taxation is not the problem. That can be done when she picks up the
money. There is no reason to have any bureaucratic intervention beyond
that point.

"People simply don't have a clear idea of civil responsibility for
paying taxes."

They probably think that buying food to eat is more important.

. " - is not quite true. As far as I know, "

This is true as far as my wife's sister was told. It is a new thing
that she was not required to do the previous time that we sent her
money.

"In your case, according to Beulorussian law, your wife's sister DOES
NOT have
to pay taxes since she is relative of the person who sent money."

This is true. However, my wife's sister had to jump through hoops to
prove that the money came from her sister. Of course they no longer
share the same family name.

"There is nothing more stupid in this world than the current policies
of the US government"

The people directly effected by it, namely the Americans, the Afghans
and the Iraqis, seem to be quite happy about it.

"Our little bureaucratic issueas are nothing compared to the shame of
Bushism."

Yes, we are terribly ashamed that we gave freedom to 25 million Iraqis
and 25 million Afghans. And I've never heard of a lack of basic human
rights referred to as "little bureaucratic issues. My wife's sister is
not in a state of absolute poverty, and so she can live without the
money if she has to. But there are other people much worse off than
she is who depend on help from the outside. I wonder if they consider
this as "little bureaucratic issues".

"but you and your wife get out of the Bushland as soon as possible."

My wife now works as a civil engineer for an American company with
contracts in Russia. She has an opportunity to go to Russia and live
there while drawing an American sized salary. But she absolutely
refuses. We are both very happy living in Bushland.

"And also, if you regularly send money to Belarus, I suggest that you
open a checking account and send your wife's sister the ATM card.
Withdrawing cash from the card is much cheaper than WU or international
wire transfers. "

We have discovered a third method that will bypass the government
completely. I'm sure that many others will do the same. When the
state takes away peoples right to control their own property they
automatically create a nation of criminals.

[Sum of Stresses]

Well, it's really pointless to dispute against much of the stuff that
you Busheviks are always eager to teach anyone who is willing to listen
to you.
I just wanted to help, comment, and reasure you that your wife's sister
does not have to "get permission from the government any time that she
wants to spend any of it". It is not true. But, well, why should I care
anyway? Besides, your messages are kind of contradicting. In the first
you say that she had to pay the tax, in the second that she did not.
If I never paid taxes in the States and only read your notes I would be
amazed how much freedom you guys exercise in the relationships with
your goverment. The truth is, there are different types of society,
different mentalities and different laws. When average American
receives foreign income he or she voluntarily puts it on the 1040 form
(well, unless the guy is absolutelly sure that he can safely pilfer
from the government). When average Byelorussian receives ANY
non-traceble income he or she... well does nothing.
I am not saying we have the best law, the best society and no problems
to worry about. The ruins of a great civilization surround us -
civilization that was an attempt to construct an alternative way of
living. It is hard, but we do what we can. What we want the least is
any preaching from the Bushland which is true Disgrace for Mankind in
our days. If I were American now I would be ashamed to lecture people
of other nationalities the way you are trying to do.
You killed from 20 to 100 thousand Iraqi civilians (you never count
lives, only the money, don't you?). Nevermind, they are grateful.
Afgany women are still afraid to attentd schools because they are
governed by the American puppet clique of warlords? Yet, according to
you they are happy to be "free" at last. Iraq has a goverment of
radical shiite Ayatollahs? Who cares! The US government kidnaps people
and sends them to be tortured in the concentration camps around the
world? Yes, but your bigger concern is the one about Byelorussian tax
law. Nothing makes you ashamed. Always willing to "help", arrogant and
violent as you are, always there to "bring freedom and democracy" to
the World. Ohhh.

[t***@mindspring.com]

"I just wanted to help, comment, and reasure you that your wife's
sister does not have to " get permission from the government any time
that she wants to spend any of it "

Apparently you are wrong.

"Besides, your messages are kind of contradicting. In the first you say
that she had to pay the tax, in the second that she did not. "

She had to pay the first time that she recieved the money and couldn't
prove that it came from her sister. After she was able to gather the
proof, she didn't.

"The truth is, there are different types of society, different
mentalities and different laws."

And the mentality and laws of your government come only from your
dictatorial government, not from the people.

"When average Byelorussian receives ANY non-traceble income he or
she... well does nothing."

We are talking about gifts from relatives here. The Byelorussian
should not be obliged to do anything but spend the money. The
government will benefit indirectly from the inflow of capital and the
boost to the economy. There is absolutely no excuse for the government
pretending that the control of the money belongs to them. Any sane
government would welcome the inflow of such capital and would try to
encourage it rather than inhibit and regulate it.

"What we want the least is any preaching from the Bushland which is
true Disgrace for Mankind in our days. If I were American now I would
be ashamed to lecture people of other nationalities the way you are
trying to do."

How absurd. I am obviously not lecturing the people of Belarus, but
rather the government of Belarus. And as we both know your dictator
for life, Lukashenko, does not represent the people of Belarus. He has
broken your constitution in order to allow himself to continue in the
Presidency indefinitely. He has shut down opposition news sources. He
has imprisoned and "disappeared" opposition leaders. He has sent his
thugs to beat peaceful protestors. And he has and will continue to rig
your elections. Your freedom of the press is rated by international
journalism groups as being in the bottom 5% in the world. I suppose
you also consider these as "small beaurocratic problems". Next he will
have to insure that no one in his country will have access to free
internet information, with the exception of his shills - if he hasn't
already done so.

You killed from 20 to 100 thousand Iraqi civilians (you never count
lives, only the money, don't you?).

I suppose that you call terrorists in civilian clothing civilians. And
the numbers that you quote include the people who were killed by
terrorists themselves. The war against hitler cost us 400,000 and it
cost Europe millions. Yet everyone thinks that it was worth it. There
is no reason that the freedom of Iraq is not worth a tiny fraction of
that amount.

"Nevermind, they are grateful."

Many of them had tears of joy in their eyes as they left the voting
stations.

"Afgany women are still afraid to attentd schools because they are
governed by the American puppet clique of warlords?"

In fact the opposite is true. No women could attend school under the
Taliban. But now more and more of them are attending. No women could
work under the Taliban, but now more and more of them are working.
There is no American puppet clique of warlords. The president of
Afghanistan is elected by the people and loved by the people.
Furthermore he is constantly undermining the power of the warlords and
replacing it with the central government (read the news some time).
And he is doing so with the help of the US.

"Yet, according to you they are happy to be "free" at last."

Compared to the Taliban they are tremendously free. And their freedom
increases daily as the power of the warlords gets smaller and smaller.

"Iraq has a goverment of radical shiite Ayatollahs?"

Where did you get such an absurd idea. The Ayatollahs are moderate and
they are not the government. Even Sistani has proposed a
constitutional government that respects the rights of everyone. And
the difference between Iraq and Belarus is that the Iraqi elections are
meaningful.

"The US government kidnaps people and sends them to be tortured in the
concentration camps around the world?"

I think you are mistaking us for your own government.

"Yes, but your bigger concern is the one about Byelorussian tax law. "

No it is about totalitarian control of people's property. And that is
just one of your governments many many problems.

List Of Arrested Demonstrators In Minsk
23:13, 19/10/2004

Here is a little news article for you from October.

http://www.charter97.org/eng/news/2004/10/19/spisok

Minsk riot police today evening brutally disbanded a protest of
Belarusian opposition. People came to express their indignation at the
obvious rigging of the results of the Sunday parliamentary elections
and referendum. According to official information, about 80% of the
Belarusians supported Lukashenka in his desire to lift terms limit for
president from Constitution. However, opinion polls, carried out by the
Gallup Institute in Belarus, showed that this figure is 48.3%. Here is
the list of detained during the rally. The observers and human rights
activists, who are standing in front of the police department of Lenin
district of Minsk, have just informed that two more detained activists
were taken away by ambulance. One of them, a girl, was carried out in
the arms unconscious, and literally thrown into the ambulance. We
should underline that the Internal Affairs Ministry informs that 48
demonstrators were detained:

Darya Maldavanava (Minsk)
Pavel Yukhnevich (Minsk)
Margaryta Antsilewskaya (Minsk)
Tatsyana Yalavaya (Minsk)
Natallya Ushko (Minsk)
Pavel Khivuk (Brest)
Alyaksay Mikulovich (Barysaw)
Mikhail Kandrashow (Barysaw)
Sveta Neselkova (Barysaw)
Maxim Venyarski
Andrey Baranaw
Marya Ganfetskaya
Artur Finkevich
Paval Sevyarynets
Anatol Lyabedzka (emergency hospital)
Mikola Statkevich
Dubowsky, Andrey
Parfyankow, Vasiliy
Mikhalenka, Syarhei
Fabishewski, Yuri
Navumenka, Yaraslaw
Kuznyatsow, Mikhail
Vishnewsky, Pavel
Zakharka, Dzmitry
Pakhnina, Alyaksandra
Shudlow, Uladzimir
Voranaw, Artsiom
Artsyushkevich, Dzianis
Kailta, Alyaksandar
Bondareva, Katsya
Alshewskaya, Yulia
Androsenka, Syarhei
Radzivonaw, Aleh
Artsyukhow, Mikakaly
Paznyak, Dzmitry
Ekel, Kanstantsin
Rylko, Syarhei

[Sum of Stresses]

Post by t***@mindspring.com
Here is a little news article for you from October.
http://www.charter97.org/eng/news/2004/10/19/spisok
Minsk riot police today evening brutally disbanded a protest of

Yeah, big news. Right wing, USA sponsored organization Charter97 tells
another story.
The reality is a little more complex for your simplistic Bushevik's

Post by t***@mindspring.com
Tatsyana Yalavaya (Minsk)

Who is she? An activist of the extremist teenage nationalistic
organization "Zubr" that is being largely exploited by bankrupt
opposition politicians. She is also a fascist, well known in
Byelorussian Internet for her radical anti-semitic and nationalistic
views. Extremists provoke police - big news, they always do.

[Alex Persky]

Post by Sum of Stresses
Yeah, big news. Right wing, USA sponsored organization Charter97 tells
another story.
The reality is a little more complex for your simplistic Bushevik's

Post by t***@mindspring.com
Tatsyana Yalavaya (Minsk)

Who is she? An activist of the extremist teenage nationalistic
organization "Zubr"

This is Lukashenko's regime which shifts youngsters towards extremism. As
there are no legal methods to fight the regime, teenagers are left with no
choice than illegal methods to fight it. It is ok, Belorussian partisans
also were extremists from the German occupation's view. Meanwhile, Zubr
never murdered or kidnaped anybody, while Lukashenko did not just once. So
who are extremists then.

Post by Sum of Stresses
that is being largely exploited by bankrupt
opposition politicians.

This is Lukashenko's term for his opposition, not yours. Please try to make
your own opinion first.

Post by Sum of Stresses
She is also a fascist, well known in
Byelorussian Internet for her radical anti-semitic and nationalistic
views.

This is very unlikely. It is Lukashenko and his trusted people whos views
are extremely anti-semitic. Zubr as well as other opposition have never
provided any of such views.

Post by Sum of Stresses
Extremists provoke police - big news, they always do.

Belorussian police doesn't need to be provoked in order to beat protestors.

[Alex Persky]

Post by Sum of Stresses
When average American
receives foreign income he or she voluntarily puts it on the 1040 form
(well, unless the guy is absolutelly sure that he can safely pilfer
from the government).

Well, probably when he or she receives these money into his or her bank
account in order to prompt the taxation agency or organisation that these
money should not be considered as a taxable income. If he or she gets cash,
I guess there is no any need to fill any forms.

Post by Sum of Stresses
When average Byelorussian receives ANY
non-traceble income he or she... well does nothing.

Which is the same as Americans do.

Post by Sum of Stresses
I am not saying we have the best law, the best society and no problems
to worry about. The ruins of a great civilization surround us -
civilization that was an attempt to construct an alternative way of
living.

This "alternative way of living", "the great civilisation" murdered millions
of innocent lives between 1939 and 1945. Are you sure you can safely repeat
this in the modern world?

Post by Sum of Stresses
It is hard, but we do what we can.

This is actually only Lukashenko and a very few of his close supporters who
are trying to return this "great civilisation". As far as I know, average
people are against him.

Post by Sum of Stresses
What we want the least is
any preaching from the Bushland which is true Disgrace for Mankind in
our days. If I were American now I would be ashamed to lecture people
of other nationalities the way you are trying to do.

Why to be ashamed? What shameful is in lecturing other people that everyone
has equal rights regardlessly of his race, nationality, religion and
political beliefs. The simple fact The Civilisation is based on.

Post by Sum of Stresses
You killed from 20 to 100 thousand Iraqi civilians (you never count
lives, only the money, don't you?).

Probably these Iraqi civilians forgot to get off their military uniform and
to drop their weapons.

Post by Sum of Stresses
Nevermind, they are grateful.

Civilians -- they really are. These are civilians that want the death
penalty for their dictator. Exactly as in Belarus.

Post by Sum of Stresses
Afgany women are still afraid to attentd schools because they are
governed by the American puppet clique of warlords?

Afgany women are not afraid to attend schools.

Post by Sum of Stresses
Yet, according to
you they are happy to be "free" at last. Iraq has a goverment of
radical shiite Ayatollahs?

Of shiites, not of radical Ayatollahs. This is the result of free elections
in Iraq. Are you implying that free elections don't represent the will of
people, that the dictator represented the will of people?

Post by Sum of Stresses
Who cares! The US government kidnaps people
and sends them to be tortured in the concentration camps around the
world?

By forcing muslims to eat pork. This is a very violent kind of torture, much
worse than beating of prisoners to death during interrogations in
Belorussian and Russian police stations and in prisons.

Post by Sum of Stresses
Yes, but your bigger concern is the one about Byelorussian tax
law.

Oh no. Our biggest concern is the will of people in Belarus.

Post by Sum of Stresses
Nothing makes you ashamed. Always willing to "help", arrogant and
violent as you are, always there to "bring freedom and democracy" to
the World.

The times when country rulers were able to murder thousands and millions of
innocent people have ended. The world will no longer tolerate this. No
country borders will be excuse to commit such crimes. This is not the will
of only Americans, this is the will of all nations.

[Sum of Stresses]

BTW- good luck in bypassing Byelorussian law. Oh, thorny path of
Freedom!..

[Alex Persky]

Post by Sum of Stresses
Yeah... Stupid and ineffective it is. I guess this bureaucratic measure
was intended to establish taxation on the foreign assets arriving in
the country.

No, this is just a half. If the government just needed some income from
taxation, it would take measures to promote business activities at the same
time, especially the international ones. I think it's quite clear that the
regime just wants to get more control of what is happening in people's life.
Those families that receive some money from their relatives abroad are less
dependent on the regime, even in psychological sense, and this is dangerous
for it.